Jake Paul Is Coming for VC

[00:00] It's Everyday Bro with the Disney Channel Flow. 5 mil on YouTube in 6 months. [00:08] Jake and Kyle! What's the strategy for marketing a fund? You. Okay, done! [00:16] I was flying in from LA going into JSX and I saw this gorgeous gray plane parked on the runway and it had this really interesting logo on it. I was like, "Hmm, that looks so familiar. Do you know what plane I'm talking about?" Yes, I do indeed. You know, coming out to Silicon Valley since I was 17. I feel like it was one of my first loves was being here and seeing these companies. What's the biggest lesson you learned from Sam Altman? Efficiency. The way he like walks in the room, [00:46] No waste of time. 15 minutes, he was hella productive. And then we'll go to the next meeting. Took over the sport of boxing. I wasn't the best boxer right away. But I branded myself, controlled the market and taste made and knew how to do that. With AI, like, I think that sports and real stories will become more valuable and more cared for. Because it actually, like, tugs the human heart. If I could post that and get 10 million views, that's like, then I'm just... [01:16] Jake Paul, Jeff Wu, welcome to Sorcery. Thank you for having us. Good to be here. How are you going to 5x this fund? We're doing it right now.

[01:35] This is Inception. We're marketing the fund. [01:39] What's the strategy for marketing the fund? [01:42] You? [01:43] Good. Okay, done. Cut. Interview's over. [01:50] I was flying in from... [01:52] LA going into JSX and I saw this gorgeous [01:56] gray plane parked on the runway and it had this really interesting logo on it. I was like, "Hmm, I look so familiar." [02:04] Do you know what plane I'm talking about? Yes, I do indeed. [02:08] Yeah, no, I every time I look at it, I'm like, wow, that's that's. [02:12] Beautiful plane. But had to throw the W logo on it and do some branding for sure. [02:18] When did you get it? [02:20] The thing it's been like... [02:22] over almost a year now. [02:26] Maybe a little bit less. [02:28] Um, [02:29] But yeah, dude, it's the best. It's really such a blessing. And... [02:34] it just like changes the game with the amount of things that you can actually do so you can actually like grow [02:40] business, do more events. [02:42] Um, [02:44] go to more meetings that [02:46] you may be... [02:47] wouldn't if there's like a charter and it's, you know, has to fly from here to there to come get you and they don't, can't fly past a certain time or the pilots, you know, [02:57] Can only fly for... [02:59] eight hours so there's all these like weird things that go into it but [03:03] Do you have Starlink? [03:04] I'm getting it. Yeah, I just have to put the plane down for like three to four weeks. I'm trying to find a window where I'm not flying for like three weeks.

[03:12] Three to four weeks. [03:15] And there's like. [03:16] Yeah, there's a lot of FAA compliance and stuff like that. I was going to say Jake is working harder now because he has... [03:23] like free reign to roam the world. So I think in some sense, like I feel like I've been traveling a lot. Jake's been traveling a lot. So in terms of just like, [03:31] It's a blessing and a curse because now it's like we can do more. [03:35] Yeah. Well, I want to talk about that. You have built... [03:39] quite [03:40] a large empire could you just lay out all the different businesses you're involved in now [03:45] That's a good. It's in my Instagram bio. This will make it easier. W, which is like men's body care better, which is like sports gaming picks fantasy, like launching more verticals. [04:02] Um, [04:03] I own a ranch, but... [04:05] that I'm [04:06] turning into... [04:08] a business eventually with different fun ideas uh most valuable promotions which is the boxing company [04:15] Anti-fund. And then my charity, Boxing Bullies. I'm involved with Celsius, the sports. [04:24] you know caffeine drink and then uh doghouse [04:29] I'm a franchisee owner of doghouse locations. And I think that's pretty much it. [04:35] Which is your favorite? [04:36] I love meeting with [04:38] really smart people who are changing the shape of the world and having like good conversations and learning

[04:46] about you know the frontier of uh american capitalism and everything [04:52] cool. I mean, we just were at OpenAI and just saw some [04:56] really crazy mind-blowing things and, um, [05:00] Yeah, it's just cool to be a part of these conversations and... [05:03] I've been... [05:04] you know coming out to silicon valley since i was 17. so i feel like it was one of my first loves was was being here and seeing these companies. [05:13] What was it like then versus now? [05:15] Thank you. [05:16] Silicon Valley. [05:20] I feel like it's [05:23] pretty similar i think i was very different now or then i mean so i don't think i could like really comprehend [05:31] everything that was going on. And I was like, so young and new and I didn't know as much about business and stuff. Um, [05:40] So I think I've changed probably more than Silicon Valley's changed. But, I mean, I think it's crazy now. Like, there's just... [05:48] um so much alpha and i feel like are we in a bubble of all these new companies popping up or are we not but um [05:59] But yeah. [06:00] I feel like, to me, I think Jake is just a really good personification of the American dream. [06:06] And one, and I think two, [06:09] I think with this current generation of tech, [06:13] There's... [06:14] power law to startups, power law to venture capital firms. But I think there's also fundamentally power laws to people.

[06:19] So I think... [06:21] The people who, and I think there's like that trope that is like the people who are the busiest, [06:25] are also the people that do the most and the fastest to respond. I think Jake really personifies that where it's like, [06:31] You get into a very high flow and you get things done and then you earn the right to [06:36] get more things done. So I think in some sense, it's like, [06:40] a lot. And I think we've, [06:42] a number of positions, but... [06:45] I wouldn't have it any other way. I think [06:48] The reason Jake and I get along is that [06:50] Jake has this term life-maxing. I think I've taken it to the extreme. I want to be like insanity-maxing. Can you just do the most craziest thing [06:59] things [07:00] with the short life that we have. So I think [07:05] To me, I think that's [07:07] just naturally, I think who we are as people. And I think the next generation of entrepreneurs are also cut in our cloth. [07:14] right? Like, [07:15] the sam altman's and the elon musk's are also just pushing what is possible [07:21] And I think [07:22] to me that's why i think we all relate and have like these really cool conversations we're investing and helping each other it's because [07:29] I think we just understand the scarcity of life and scarcity of time. So we want to just maximize the most out of it. So that's probably the underlying nature of why we're even doing this. And I think to Jake's point, if you have limited things to work on and think about, why not think about the most sci-fi? [07:46] interesting stuff. [07:48] I have to ask, like, what is both of yours day to day like? Like,

[07:52] What time do you wake up? What time do you go to bed? How do you manage all the different projects? Yeah, I would say it's very different depending on traveling. But my most like consistent schedule would be when I'm in, you know, training boxing. And, you know, I'll wake up. [08:09] 10 a.m. [08:10] Um... [08:12] be in the gym at 1230, but in the morning I meditate, get in the ice bath, [08:18] I sit outside in my backyard and, [08:21] my chef brings me over breakfast. I start jamming on the phone, getting like any early morning texts. [08:28] out of the way getting things coordinated for the day and then drive over to the gym [08:36] Usually that's. [08:38] that could be 20 rounds of sparring whatever [08:42] Um, [08:43] Maybe some strength and conditioning after that. [08:46] Come home, lunch, recovery, hyperbaric, red light. [08:50] all the different things more, um, another ice bath, [08:55] then I will jump on... [08:57] calls for like one to two hours depending on the day in between the trainings take a nap is [09:05] fast as possible [09:07] one hour nap, wake up, [09:10] And it's [09:11] my second practice at 7 30 p.m. [09:16] And then... [09:17] Yeah. [09:18] Probably like... [09:19] going to the track running five miles whatever it might be it could be another boxing session

[09:25] um, [09:27] And then... [09:28] Yeah, come home, keep jamming. That's probably when I work with my content team at night because they all live right near me, and so... [09:36] just focus on the content side of things and then [09:40] Probably watch a movie and go to sleep. [09:43] I wish I could sleep in until 10. I think I just naturally wake up. I thought that was crazy. I wake up at like 4 a.m., [09:51] Yeah, but what time do you go to sleep? I have to optimize to be awake at night because the fights are at night. [09:56] That's true. So if I'm... [09:59] It's fight night, and I haven't been having my schedule to where I'm awake at night, and then all of a sudden it's fight day, and I'm like... [10:06] very tired right before the fight. [10:10] But if I go to sleep at... [10:13] 2 a.m. [10:14] Um... [10:16] then it's like still eight hours of sleep. [10:19] Yeah, I'm pretty, I think Jake knows that I travel a lot. So I think it's quite travel dependent. I split time a lot in San Francisco and Miami. [10:26] Um... [10:28] If I'm like up like, [10:29] 6 7 a.m. I wish I could sleep in a little bit more to be honest. Um, [10:35] And I think one of the things that I think we're just improving our schedule is like, how do you just like block out days? Because I think the biggest thing you're probably asking is like, how do you context switch so much? Yeah, exactly. Um... [10:45] So I like to block up [10:47] days of various themes and then just like [10:51] having calls or meetings that are blocked up by themes.

[10:56] So like Wednesdays we'll do anti-fund investment committee calls on a weekly basis, right? And then for different various operating companies might be a Tuesday or Mondays and you have themes. [11:07] And then specifically, if there's more product-oriented stuff, I try to block them up. If there's more pitch meetings, I try to block them up. [11:14] So I tried to reduce context switching. [11:18] but when you're traveling, it's like, [11:21] Like you have to just like leave room for serendipity and chaos. Um, [11:27] But I think that's like one thing that I've just come to appreciate about Jake is that like his range of context switching is a very, very high. [11:34] Because like, [11:35] you're sitting down with Mark Chen, the chief research officer of OpenAI, talking about the roadmap and the future models that they're working on. Then he gets to be a celebrity with a TMZ interview and then invited to a dinner or an event. Then you work on being a professional athlete. I think [11:55] So for me, it's like... [11:58] As an entrepreneur, as a VC, you naturally context-witch a lot. [12:02] And I think one thing that I think people misunderstand is that [12:06] Jake's context range is super wide. [12:10] And I've seen him flip. Like being an influencer bro to an athlete homie, like hanging out with other celebrities. So like, okay, we're going to be like... [12:20] you flip a switch and like, he's like sitting down serious in a business meeting. And then you put a camera on him and he's like,

[12:26] He's like dancing. [12:29] So... [12:29] But I think that's what the greatest operators are like. You just get dropped in situations, and you're like a state machine. You switch really quickly. [12:36] Um, [12:37] But all is to say is that it's like controlled chaos is maybe the way I think about like [12:42] um our schedules in our lives but then it's like okay how do you structure as much of that chaos into blocks and themes where it can be durable and sustainable [12:52] Yeah, I mean, well, I think about all that, I'm like... [12:55] Do you ever think maybe I have multiple personalities? I think everyone does. I think people are afraid to just like express them. [13:02] But that's why people think they know me a lot. [13:06] is because they see the personality at the press conferences where I'm talking shit and saying absurd things and wearing diamond chains and streetwear. And then, like... [13:17] I'm at my ranch just talking about cows and have a gun on me and jeans and boots and... [13:23] a Carhartt jacket, like, [13:26] and then i'm doing business and then i'm doing a youtube video or i'm blowing up a car like so [13:31] I have a bunch of different sides of me. I think people maybe are just afraid to express those sides sometimes. [13:37] But. [13:38] tangent yeah like i'm so curious because i mentioned this before like i was trying to think of [13:44] similarities or maybe like corollaries of like who you've built your personal brand off of and like [13:50] the business empire you're building off of that in [13:54] as it extends to ventures, as it extends to athletics and creators and like all that kind of stuff.

[14:01] There's people like Arnold Schwarzenegger, The Rock, Joe Montana, Ashton Kutcher, all these people that have dipped their toes in many different things. So when he can say like... [14:12] dating back in time would be like Howard Hughes. Like, what do you think it means to be like a true entrepreneur? [14:17] And how do you encompass that? [14:19] Thank you. [14:20] yeah i would say um naturally being a leader and having that drive and work ethic [14:29] and not being afraid to fail. [14:31] and having courage to take risks and to walk down paths that [14:38] others are afraid to [14:40] And even when you walk down that path and [14:42] fall down the mountain, you get back up and you try it again because... [14:46] like, [14:48] I had to fail to learn. [14:51] And I think that's every entrepreneur's story. And so... [14:56] really resilient and, uh, being persevered, you know, having a lot of perseverance as well. So, uh, that's what I would. [15:05] say it means to be an entrepreneur and [15:08] having vision. I think a lot of people don't have a vision of like what's possible and can't intuitively feel like what needs to be built in the future. So. [15:18] You said you meditate. Do you do any other kind of like vision boarding or? Yeah. Meditation, breath work, um, manifestation, um, [15:28] visualizing what I want to happen, like...

[15:31] you know, that's that's more in fighting, like visualizing how I see the fight going. But [15:36] I say, [15:38] you know, my goals out loud in the morning. [15:42] um and try to connect with god as to like opening myself up to his voice and and what [15:49] he wants for me. And so I think that's very powerful as well. [15:54] um [15:55] and helps you [15:57] become the best version of yourself, which will resonate [16:01] throughout your whole life, you know, personal or business. Sorcery is brought to you by Brex, the financial stack trusted by more than 30,000 companies, including one in three venture-backed startups in the U.S. Nearly 40% of startups fail because they run out of cash. Brex is literally built to help founders avoid that. Unlike traditional banks that let your money sit idle, chipping away at it with fees, Brex is designed to help you spend smarter and move faster. [16:31] checking, treasury, and FDIC protection into one powerful account. You can send and receive money globally at lightning speeds, get 20 times the standard FDIC coverage through their partner banks, and even high yield from day one. With same day and even same hour liquidity, access your funds anytime. Companies like Scale AI, DoorDash, Service Titan, HIMSS, Anthropic, Flexport, Robinhood, [17:01] slash sorcery. That's B-R-E-X dot com slash sorcery. I think one thing I think is interesting about

[17:09] what Jake is building, what we're building is that, [17:12] A lot of these [17:13] Celebrity... [17:14] multi- [17:16] hyphenate type people started their investment in business careers [17:20] Post Prime. [17:22] Right? Like... [17:24] like Arnold or Joe Montana. [17:27] they were starting to do [17:29] business in their 40s and 50s and arguably past their, uh, [17:34] their social cultural prime. I think what's interesting that's I think unique to our generation is that [17:40] I mean, we started anti-fun when you were, what, like 24, 25? [17:46] I think, yeah... [17:48] 23 news yeah so like [17:51] So, uh... [17:53] Thank you. [17:53] What I'm personally excited about is that the time duration of learning and compounding [18:00] I mean, I wish I was, like, doing as much as Jake when I was, like, 24, 25. But, like, Jake's got, like... [18:06] 50 years of compounding for like, I think a Joe, and like, these are all like great, like role models for us. [18:14] they are able to compound, you know, when they're in, they have like 20 years less of compounding to do. [18:21] And I think it's not just because they were less ambitious. I think it was just like the timing and the culture of, [18:26] of [18:28] how you could distribute and engage with people. It didn't exist. You couldn't do it 20 years ago. You couldn't be 20 and have millions of people follow you. [18:38] I think with social media, with internet first, with people gravitating towards...

[18:43] creators and individuals versus platforms. [18:46] You would have to be platformed by the NFL or CNBC to have a voice. [18:51] I think this generation, our generation, you could just be really cool yourself and then have a direct voice to the people. [18:58] So I think that's like the academic lens, I think, about it. [19:02] Sometimes it's interesting to just, if you're writing the Harvard or Stanford Business School [19:08] case study of what we're doing it's like what are the attributes that makes what anti-fun is doing great unique and and game-changing um i think a lot of it just like towards like the historical moment in time where [19:22] Someone like Jake in his mid-20s can have... [19:26] Access. [19:27] to [19:29] like the top three tech billionaires and founders who are changing the world and have simultaneously have distribution ability for millions of people and then have a unique tie to the next generation of people that are just coming to prime right like i think [19:44] Millennials and Gen Z will very soon take over all buying decisions, cultural decisions from [19:51] Gen X and boomers. So they're all going to die. And we're going to take over and [19:57] um it's just it's just like people die what did you just say well i mean boomers are gonna they're all dying it's time for folks in our generation to step up and lead [20:07] Okay. [20:09] And I think going back to like boldness, like I think that's part of our brand. I think Jake personifies that. And I think...

[20:16] I think we relate really well because I am not afraid to take bold stances. [20:20] But I think that is what was required for a venture firm as well as being an entrepreneur. You have to have a vision that's contrarian. Otherwise, like... [20:28] You're not doing anything interesting. The really interesting part about anti-fund is... [20:34] You are such a strong representation of culture and technology. I want to know when you decided to take it so seriously and not just do the angel investing route, but like actually dedicate yourself. [20:44] to the fund and have a portfolio of names like physical intelligence, open AI, cognition, [20:51] Etc. I could go on. But you have formally built out [20:55] a really beautiful fund, and you're here very frequently. [20:59] You know, I would say always, like... [21:02] took [21:04] it very seriously like this whole world but i think it took experience to get better at it um but the [21:13] you know, the intensity and like wanting to do bigger, you know, funds and, you know, [21:18] grow and make money for people and make money for myself that was always there and i think [21:25] you just get reps and reps and reps and you start small and, you know, sometimes you fail, but then you just keep growing and growing and getting that experience under your belt. And then you look back all of a sudden and it was like, [21:38] everyone's talking about us all the time. Like it kind of felt like this overnight thing where we came out of nowhere, but it was actually just grinding, grinding, grinding, grinding.

[21:47] Yeah. [21:49] I think... [21:50] Yeah, I think in some sense, I think we've all been investing slash building companies since we're very young, like, [21:56] I mean, just my story, like I had an opportunity when I was graduating computer science at Stanford to do my PhD at Princeton. [22:04] joined Facebook as a software engineer or a gun to light combinator. And that got me down the entrepreneurial route. So I think we've always been [22:11] building companies [22:13] I mean, I give a lot of credit to us starting AntiFund [22:18] to take it to the next level. Because I think just as an angel investor, it's like you're investing in friends, supporting each other. [22:24] I think what... [22:26] flipped the switch for me personally was realizing that [22:31] with Jake, we have a really unique platform. We could actually... [22:36] make up a splash and compete at the very high levels of Sand Hill Road and Wall Street. [22:41] with a product [22:42] of our current time [22:44] in generation that other people cannot compete with. [22:47] and then when you see that market opportunity [22:51] I think the entrepreneur means like, hey, we got to seize that moment, that window. [22:54] um [22:56] So I think to Jake's point, I think it's always been serious, but I think the window of just like really... [23:02] capturing the opportunity i i feel like a very [23:06] sense of urgency and opportunity to [23:10] to compete and win. Okay. So let's go into the details of the fund. I'd love to know, like, talk as if you're talking to an LP or that kind of thing, right? Like, how many investments do you structure per fund? What is the size of the AUM per fund? Like, how many companies have you invested in? All that kind of stuff. How do you structure it? What's the formal structure of the fund? Yeah.

[23:31] So, [23:32] We have about 65 mil plus AUM total. We're currently investing in a $30 million vehicle. [23:38] But I think the strategy has very quickly evolved. [23:42] where we're realizing that [23:45] we have really strong value add in relationships with some of the best [23:49] iconic companies of our generation we've built like a really good friendship with sam altman mark chentz were big investors in open ai and i think if you saw the viral sora launch it was just like a bunch of jake paul memes that was something that i think jake should tell that story about how that was engineered and it's not something that was just like hey jake paul is now gay it's like it's like you know that's something that jake was thoughtful in terms of why we were uh part of that launch um [24:17] Thank you. [24:18] So I think on one side... [24:21] we're almost evolving to... [24:22] and exploring a growth strategy or a crossover IPO strategy. And then on the early, early side, um, [24:31] Another thing that we've realized is that some of the most technical, smartest young people that are building all grew up watching Jake. [24:38] as kids and we have an unfair affinity or access to [24:43] being a part of their entrepreneurial story. [24:45] when they're just coming out of MIT or just coming into Harvard, just coming to Stanford. [24:50] hey, in some sense, Jake's walked that parallel path of being someone who is a teenager making his first brand deal for a few hundred dollars to now building multi-million dollar deals and

[25:04] and keep climbing that ladder um i think there's a cultural affinity there that we have a unfair advantage so that that is to say that [25:14] typically we'll do a $250K entry check to build a relationship, and then we'll size up multimillion-dollar checks to [25:21] companies that [25:23] are working, that we like the product, we like the team, and it double and triple down. [25:28] That's like the general construction. How do you structure the fund between early and growth stage? You have like a portion committed to early stage, growth stage, follow on. How do you? Currently, we have a couple of different sleeves and we're. [25:40] formalizing specific vehicles to concentrate on the strategies and having multiple products. There's like an interesting point in time. [25:48] with everything going on in AI that companies are figuring things out and pivoting really fast and reaching inflection points at stages you would have never predicted. And so I feel like when people are like, oh, what's your strategy? And it's like, oh, I just do this one thing and it's filtered out to one thing. You put yourself at a complete disadvantage. And I feel like the fluidity and being dynamic in this environment is how you capture that upside. And that's where the name comes from. Like, [26:14] We're here. [26:16] at the end of the day to make money. So it's like, I never understood it even when I first was coming to Silicon Valley. They're like, we're seed investors. And I was like, okay, but... [26:26] if you could invest into a growth round that's you know looks really good on paper etc like why would you not [26:33] leverage that as well.

[26:35] um [26:36] Thank you. [26:37] And have less risk. So... [26:40] that's how we've always looked at it from the start. I mean, I think that's something that I think about a lot from just, [26:47] the timing perspective. I think, [26:50] Even now, it's like... [26:52] the valuations, the stage. I think people... [26:57] I think LPs like a very icy memo, writable little... [27:03] Essay? [27:04] But I think the best founders don't follow a book report. [27:08] the best investors don't follow a book report. And I think that's where there's a disconnect with [27:13] The book report. [27:15] type investor and I think the next generation of these solo GPs are quite creative. I think the best investors are not necessarily the name brands, although they have a lot of AUM. [27:27] solo capital is like we can kind of name in [27:30] on that list of people that just do very very creative deal making um [27:36] And I think it's because of the nature of the industry now, because things move really quickly, you need to be adaptive. [27:43] Do you think creatives are at an advantage now versus previous generations? Because I've been noticing this theme, at least in my recent interviews. I did an interview with Alex Karp. He's all about artistry and he's dyslexic. He uses that to his advantage. He comes with ideas and he takes action on them. He also believes in meritocracy, like going after the best idea at any point. And I've been seeing that theme throughout many conversations, especially now. It's like we have all the tools for creation and like whoever is the best creator will win.

[28:13] a really interesting point in time where [28:17] Again, it's unpredictable. It's completely abstract and like the most creative kind of mind... [28:22] wins. [28:24] Turing is training the next generation of AI with tasks that require real expertise and real world judgment. That's why companies like NVIDIA, Anthropic, Salesforce, and Gemini partner with Turing. Turing builds realistic reinforcement learning environments and data systems based on real operational traces. The kind of infrastructure Frontier Labs need to train superintelligence. Visit Turing.com slash S-O-U-R-C-E-R-Y. [28:52] Yeah, I think it's an interesting world where if execution... [28:56] is commoditized to compute [28:59] Then it goes back to, okay, like literally the most creative person, but also the person who can control culture and dictate taste. [29:06] is the one who wins. So I think creativity is very important. But I would argue that whoever can control culture and taste, [29:14] that decides which creative thing is better right because like quite subjective [29:19] that's then therefore like the highest order of value. [29:23] Can you drive people to say, hey, [29:26] This is important. [29:29] I think that's actually one of the core... And that goes back to why I like... [29:34] took over the sport of boxing. I wasn't, [29:36] the best boxer right away. But I... [29:40] Branded myself, controlled the market and taste made and knew how to do that and control the culture of it. So that's, you know.

[29:50] i think what you're saying is in like a live metaphor of it happening [29:55] Yeah. So yeah, a hundred percent. I think that's like a perfect case study, right? Like [30:00] There are a lot of boxers that have boxed longer with more credentials, but [30:05] literally who made the most money and has one of the fastest growing promotions in boxing, this man here. So it's just like, if you're in the venture capital business, then you're in the capital formation, capital accumulation game. And it's like, [30:22] I think the way I think about it is if [30:25] We can do it in our personal brands and our personal businesses. We should... [30:29] The next scale of that is can we do that at an asset class level and an industry level? What are the categories you're most excited about right now? I know you've backed some really big names, but what are you most excited about? I think a lot of the themes are AI infrastructure applied AI and robotics. [30:45] which might sound very counterintuitive because we have... [30:50] pretty unfair access to consumer companies. [30:53] which we will do on occasion. But I think what we've realized that you have to be very focused and targeted on what you say yes and no to. [31:02] And I think it's like very, very clear that over a [31:05] 10, 20, 30 year time horizon. [31:08] Um, [31:10] AI and robotics are the largest markets. [31:12] it's it is already changing how we interact with each other with with with with [31:18] like how we navigate the environment.

[31:20] We want to be a part of that and help taste make that. [31:26] Jake, what do you like? [31:27] Thank you. [31:27] I mean, I like defense tech because I like guns and explosions. [31:34] So yeah, I always say how much I... [31:38] uh love and roll but um [31:42] Yeah, whatever, like... [31:44] is the... [31:46] most exciting to me always has to do with like what's [31:50] this shocking story and like you're sitting there like i can't believe what i'm witnessing which i mean [31:56] Yeah, again, like every time we go to open AI and like see the [32:01] you know, [32:02] year-long or six-month-long roadmap, I'm just like, oh, my God. Like, this is exciting. So it's cliche to say AI, but, like... [32:12] It is exciting. When did you first... [32:14] get in touch or started working with OpenAI. What was that like? [32:19] I think it... [32:21] well you've known mark for a while yeah but the connection happened at the inauguration [32:27] um, [32:28] with me and Sam Altman and we just, [32:32] were sitting next to each other and was this when your chair broke that was theovon oh [32:40] my jaw broke uh yeah um [32:45] No, and I think I knew that, like, Sam... [32:49] likes fast cars and so do i and so we just started talking about cars

[32:56] And then we kind of just got along and that was really it. And so you've been involved with the Sora launch. You were a pregnant lady. You were many different things. Yeah. Makeup artist. I was a robber. I was a bunch of things. But yeah, so that eventually led to us. [33:15] Um, [33:16] helping them, yeah, develop [33:18] Sora and like what it was going to even be. [33:22] and look like and all of that stuff and consulting them. [33:27] You know, me and my brother have... [33:29] however many years combined of social media experience like since [33:33] the beginning of... [33:35] what social media... [33:37] has become and [33:39] we were there when the term influencer was even made up. So, [33:45] just giving them [33:46] our best insight into what we love and hate about certain social media platforms um and what [33:54] we know fans look for and ease of use and comments and like just just super detailed [34:00] consulting, um, [34:03] And... [34:05] yeah just doing like regular calls with them and then i basically [34:10] Um, [34:12] you know, [34:13] Thank you. [34:15] gave my name, image, and likeness to the app because you have to, you know, approve of that. And I think nobody, you know...

[34:26] really wanted to do that, I think. And, um... [34:30] I saw what it... [34:31] could do and become and like the videos were entertaining and then it just blew up and obviously the app exploded overnight number one in the app store and everyone just started turning me [34:43] into, you know, all of these different things. And [34:49] the videos [34:50] were funny to people and so it just went viral six or one billion views in uh six days and [34:58] um, [34:59] Yeah, really just... [35:01] great partnership that worked across the board really well with between us too. [35:06] Yeah. [35:07] And I was saying that, you know, [35:10] Now that we built that rep together and the trust and the relationship, I think we're exploring. We were just at OpenAI for three hours looking at other... [35:17] ways to collaborate. So if there's [35:20] Things might be cooking. [35:21] What? Okay. Well... [35:24] Interesting. What's cooking? [35:26] Thank you. [35:27] I think I'll let them lead. [35:32] No comment. Okay. What's the biggest lesson you learned from Sam Altman? [35:38] Thank you. [35:39] I would, the first thing that comes to mind is, um, [35:43] Efficiency. [35:45] The way he like directs his team and like walks in the room, sits down, let's get right into the conversation. Boom, boom, boom. You need that. Do it. Get it done. Like this is here. Yeah, I like that idea. Let's do it. Boom. No waste of time.

[36:01] 15 minutes he was hella productive and then we'll go to the next meeting [36:06] And I think a lot of people just sit around and... [36:09] we'll do hour-long meetings or calls and just waste time so i think that was inspiring because [36:16] time is the most valuable thing. And it's the only reason that you can't, [36:20] accomplish more essentially. So his time management [36:24] was the first thing that came to mind with that. Yeah, I think that's a good one. I feel like his... [36:29] breadth of vision and ambition is... [36:33] inspiring. I think there's a few entrepreneurs, I would say, like Elon Musk or Palmer Luckey, are in that same caliber of tier, like a Zuckerberg. [36:44] I mean, just like the scale and breadth of projects that they're pushing at all different fronts is really cool. [36:51] And I think it personally inspires me around, okay, like, [36:55] Sam is a... [36:57] human being as far as we can tell right like he's a human and uh he's his [37:04] Time to leverage is very high. And then... [37:08] I think Jake puts a very nice way to explain like, okay, he's very, very efficient, but it's like, okay, how can we all be more efficient? [37:16] and i think to me it's like the ambition part and the vision part is is [37:21] very like just motivating to say okay like these are the types of people that push society forward push culture forward [37:27] And how do we support them? Can we earn a spot to be one of them?

[37:33] What's your hottest take on media right now? [37:36] on media. [37:37] like, [37:38] traditional or social or social media. Like, what do you think? What do you think people are doing wrong right now? What they could do better? Do you think that there's going to be a generation of failed influencers? Business models are changing. Definitely. Yes. The failed influencers because it's it's difficult. [37:54] It's difficult. [37:57] And I think... [37:59] that [38:00] everyone has more access to making videos and so i think the [38:03] best videos that people capture. [38:07] um and the most viral ones are like the authentic moments and things um and so [38:13] I think [38:16] It's very difficult to break through when there's [38:20] when I was, you know, first starting. [38:23] the regular average person like wasn't uploading videos and stories there was one [38:29] you know, six second video feed on Vine. [38:34] And so, [38:35] Let's just, I don't know the exact numbers, but let's say... [38:38] a thousand videos were uploaded on vine [38:42] back in the day, in the first days. [38:45] Now we're at [38:46] you know, [38:47] millions and millions of videos every day across multiple platforms. So, um, it's way more difficult and [38:56] I think people like to copy each other as well as like influencers and just do the same thing.

[39:03] So people fall into that trap a lot and... [39:08] Yeah, I would say... [39:10] Thank you. [39:11] I don't know if you have any hot takes, but I'm going to think of another one. I might have a hot take that is interesting. [39:19] I think... [39:22] There's a difference between someone like... [39:25] MrBeast type content creator who to me is [39:30] spectacle and blighting money on fire to get views type of a content creator. [39:35] to... [39:36] Someone like Jake or Logan who can just talk and people naturally gravitate towards the human. [39:43] Um, [39:45] Especially with AI... [39:46] and uh [39:48] generating spectacles through a prompt. I think [39:53] And I, I, I, my understanding is that, you know, Mr. Beast is trying to be much more of a person now. [39:58] Because if you think about what his content is, it's like literally lighting money on fire to get views. Yeah. [40:04] Um, [40:05] the marker to me about [40:07] cultural power is that if you can just sit in front of a camera and talk [40:12] We can think of people like [40:14] Andrew Tate and some of these like very controversial or Candace Owens. They're just like literally talking. [40:19] And there might be literally car crashes of takes. [40:23] but there's some art to... [40:25] their content production to view is just them talking to them like hey i need to like give away lamborghinis and like blow up 10 million dollars to get views so my hot take is that i am long

[40:39] people that have true cultural affinity to [40:42] their viewers. [40:44] versus reliance on stunts and... [40:47] spectacle. [40:48] I feel like last year was really marked by the viral moment, especially in technology. Like everyone was going after the viral videos, viral launch videos, spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on less than two minutes. Like really crazy kind of to think about that in the hindsight. But now a lot of people, um, [41:05] I guess the trend that I'm noticing is a shift towards quality content. Once they actually have product market fit, they have use cases, doing more collaborations with large brands, people that have a premium to them to kind of like, [41:19] move past just that [41:22] Thank you. [41:22] attention-seeking behavior, but more of like, no, this is like... [41:27] This is legit, and this is a really good story. [41:29] um, [41:30] Did you have another hot take? Yeah, I think... [41:36] with [41:37] with AI, like making a ton of... [41:41] content and like studios there's gonna be like ai studios making all these things and stuff [41:46] Um, [41:48] I think that sports and like [41:51] real stories will become more valuable and more, [41:57] cared for because actually like [41:59] tugs, [42:00] the human heart, you know, like robot boxing would be sick, but [42:05] you know you're not you don't like actually the human it doesn't have a heart and you don't like

[42:11] love the robot and like hear its story and what it went through. [42:14] Um, [42:16] So, yeah. [42:17] Yeah, I think sports will... [42:19] and the the athlete stories and them actually having to work hard versus getting a computer chip put into them that makes them punch a thousand you know like i think the actual [42:31] time that a human has to put into things will become more valuable. [42:35] Would you box a robot? [42:37] Thank you. [42:38] Um... [42:40] I mean, how strong is it? Like, how tall is it? Like, I think I'm done boxing six foot six people. So if it's a six foot six robot, probably not. [42:53] Um, [42:55] Thank you. [42:55] but i mean i don't think people would care right like [43:01] about me versus a robot. [43:04] I think they would care. [43:05] you [43:07] But like if it was evenly matched or like [43:11] The robot was way more powerful. [43:14] Then it's just like a... [43:16] Then me signing up to die. [43:20] Thank you. [43:20] Not good. Okay. Not good. So, Jeff, last time I saw you, you were on one of these tours where you're [43:30] You were actually here with Logan, and this was when Logan just made his announcement of joining the fund. So one, I want to talk through that. And then two, let's get through this tour thing. This has become a real thing, and then you're also showing people what it's like when you...

[43:45] go to meetings. You're sitting in the in the boardroom of Sequoia Founders Fund. You were at Applied Intuition. You were at all these different kinds of companies. So one, like, let's talk about Logan and his entrance into the fund and then how you guys went about these tours. [44:01] Some of you may not have heard this yet, but our sponsor Public just launched something called Generated Assets, and it brings AI into investing in a way I've honestly never seen before. Here's how it works. You type in an idea like AI-powered supply chain companies with positive free cash flow, or defense tech companies growing revenue over 25% year over year. Public's AI then dispatches a swarm of agents that scan every single US stock, evaluates them, and instantly builds a custom [44:31] why each stock is included. And before you invest, you can even backtest your idea against the S&P 500 so you're making decisions with real context, not just guessing. And beyond generated assets, Public lets you invest in stocks, bonds, options, crypto, all in one place. They'll even give you an uncapped 1% match when you transfer your investments over from another platform. If you want to build a portfolio that actually reflects your thesis, visit public.com slash sorcery, paid for by Public Investing. Full disclosures in the description. [45:00] Yeah, I think Logan is a great... [45:02] addition to the partnership, um, [45:06] One, I think... [45:08] as a [45:09] entrepreneur like he's a phenomenal entrepreneur. [45:13] Um, [45:14] prime fastest growing beverage in history, multiple businesses that he's created in over the years. So I think in terms of

[45:22] One, to me, it's like... [45:24] Aside from like the fame and the influence, just like... [45:28] he sold a billion dollars of [45:30] beverages in a couple years like okay like how many companies in Silicon Valley have [45:35] than a billion in revenue in a couple years. [45:39] literally the best companies in the world. So I think in terms of like [45:43] the ability to mentor and guide and have that, like, we've been there, done that. I think he meets that bar of being a anti-fund partner to be able to have that credibility and reputation to mentor young founders. Um, um, [45:55] And then two, I think it just doubles down and recapitulates the thesis that [46:00] if anti-fund [46:02] is iconoclastic as like one way to like think about us if you just term us in one term. I think we also want to just own the idea that [46:14] tech and culture. [46:16] is what will control the future. [46:18] And we want to be the ones... [46:21] in pole position around that. [46:23] And I think with both Jake and Logan, probably... [46:27] two of the top five [46:29] figures in our generation [46:33] It feels like an unfair advantage for us to expand the partnership to have Logan join the team. [46:38] Um, [46:39] And I think in terms of just like [46:41] the meetings, I think that's like one thing that [46:44] i found to be just super fun to to build anti-fun with jake it's just like the density and velocity of

[46:53] literally the best of [46:54] the industry that we get to talk and share ideas with is really high. [46:59] And, [47:00] one, we learn really quickly. And then two, we can also then take that learning, implement it to our own investments, our own companies, and also just feed it back into the ecosystem. So if we can be that... [47:10] node [47:12] that's one personally fulfilling and then two if we just like show the behind the scenes on that stuff which [47:17] Again, I think Jake kind of invented the daily vlog, right? [47:21] we should be taking some of these things that have worked in terms of education showing behind the scenes [47:26] um yeah i think we want to be doing that more because [47:29] it is super rare to be in some of these rooms. And I think the reception on that has been very, very positive. And I think we're going to take that positive feedback loop and do more of that. [47:39] Mm-hmm. [47:40] Jake, when did you first meet Logan? [47:43] I think I was zero. [47:47] I think I was 30 seconds old. [47:50] In my mom's hospital bed, probably. [47:55] There's a picture of it. There's a picture. Or actually a video. I'm on video like being born. My... [48:03] Someone VHSed it. Like, so since the first moment of my life I've been on camera. [48:07] It's weird to watch. [48:09] Are you excited to work with your brother on this? [48:13] 100%. Yeah. [48:14] Like Jeff was saying, he's such a hard worker. And... [48:18] He's really good at what he does and he brings a lot to the table. And interestingly enough, we've always said this about

[48:25] our careers is [48:26] we are doing the same things but taking very different routes and because of that [48:32] um we have very different networks and as you know like [48:37] you know venture capital's [48:38] all about network and so he's brought like a completely [48:43] different [48:44] you know, group of people, [48:45] Um, [48:47] you know to the table than jeff and i were in touch with and constantly speaking with etc [48:54] So that's been really powerful already, and he's doing a great job. [48:58] Who takes riskier or maybe more aggressive investment bets? [49:03] Definitely Logan. [49:05] Really? No, we've had to stop him. You had to stop him? Like, we've had to tell him that, like, here's why an idea is bad. [49:14] And like, he's... [49:17] He's... [49:20] Not been doing it as long. [49:22] So... [49:23] He's like still... [49:24] learning and [49:26] I think there's that first initial excitement when you first start investing that like every I mean you're getting pitched [49:33] And they're going to show you all the... [49:35] you know, gold and the fruits of the company, but they're not going to show you the dirt. And you have to be, [49:42] Very... [49:43] savvy and been doing it for a while the [49:46] to kind of see and feel those things and really pick up the numbers and [49:50] this is what's going on and what's the valuation was this a good entry point [49:55] It's like those things, but...

[49:57] Yeah, I think well said. I think what I think for, I think most VCs or most angel investors, you got to, [50:03] It's really a business of saying no in a nice way. [50:07] How do you say no to people all the time? I don't know if it needs to be a nice way. It's definitely an objective way. Like 99% of the companies you're not going to invest in. It's just the, it's just the model. Yeah. But I think, but I think I have empathy towards that. Like these people, these founders are really believe and really want to work with us. And yeah, [50:23] and maybe they're right and we're wrong. So I think the nice part, I think, is... [50:29] out of respect to the fellow entrepreneur, not like... [50:33] we're not here to be exploited. So I don't think that's like, that's not the right term of nice, but I think it's like a respect to the fellow entrepreneur. [50:40] and realizing that there's a humbleness that will be wrong. [50:43] um but yeah i think you have to also just be ruthless around just saying no because it's not we don't think that this will make money for ourselves or for our capital partners um [50:54] I was going to take a different route to it. I think Jake is definitely much more risk on as a human being. But I think that's very fair that Logan is on the learning curve in terms of just reps in the field of Silicon Valley and doing investments. I have to ask because I was thinking about this earlier. I mean, I've been in venture my whole career. I'm just starting on this like media game and I'm. [51:19] Some people that come to me... [51:21] don't have great intentions and can be a little scammy. And you're definitely exposed to more people, more fraud, like all of this kind of stuff. Part of the role of a venture capitalist and an investor is to be...

[51:34] you know, [51:35] very disciplined, have like a really good BS detector and also know what's good and what's bad. I'm really curious from your standpoint as a celebrity and a public figure, [51:44] How do you discern between like the scammy fraud stuff and true good companies? Yeah, I mean, it took time. But, you know, me and Jeff have always said like, [51:55] We've both met so many people. [51:57] And I think probably even me more than you, just like even just... [52:02] you can meet a fan like I was just I'll go out and meet fans and um you just become very good at reading people and [52:12] talking to a lot of people and seeing people that are there for you during the highs and lows, who stood by your side. [52:24] all of these little things. And then what I noticed is, [52:29] the more good people I get around, the more we attract good people. And so, [52:35] You know, I've been doing this for a long time, but it probably... [52:38] took me until I was like, [52:39] 21, 22, just really start finding good people. [52:44] And then since then, I've just attracted people. [52:48] uh more good people and the other good people can sniff out and like see things [52:53] um that [52:54] that i don't maybe and people act differently in front of me than [52:58] than my friends. So people people show me [53:02] their best side. And I actually like

[53:07] will ask my friends what they think of someone because [53:11] they're not like kissing ass essentially yeah i was gonna say that like [53:15] it. [53:16] Maybe in a more blunt way. Like I think we all got scammed when we're younger. [53:21] And it's like, [53:22] Maybe not, like, directly scammed, or, like, we made... I've definitely gotten scammed, I'll tell you that. Yeah, no, that's what I'm saying. Like, I think we, like... Especially in the meaty game, a lot of these clippers are not real clippers. Yeah, so, yeah, no, 100%. I think... [53:34] I think I'm sure Jake has war stories, but like, yo, you got, you got screwed over this, this is like, so it's like, it's like the maybe the blunt ways I get. And I've made mistakes in my career where it's like, oh, yeah. [53:44] I got fucked. [53:46] Don't make that same mistake again. So I think we've been lucky that [53:51] we made a lot of mistakes early and when we're young where now it's like we're in our [53:58] productive primes while having a ton of reps and we're not too tired to keep grinding and competing. [54:04] yeah what are some of the war stories that you have like war stories yeah like what scams have you fallen for [54:13] I mean... [54:15] Mostly just like, yeah, like people being fake. [54:19] Mm-hmm. [54:19] from in [54:22] even if it's just your personal life or something like that it's probably the [54:26] Yeah, the number one thing for sure. What excites you? [54:30] Life, honestly, life is great. [54:34] And, and, uh, [54:36] Yeah.

[54:37] creating amazing experiences with [54:40] your friends and family and my my fiancee yuta [54:45] And. [54:48] Helping the world [54:50] Um, [54:51] and helping others once you've helped yourself first. [54:56] But I've gotten to that point where like, [54:58] one of my greatest accomplishments was like [55:00] helping Amanda Serrano go from [55:03] making [55:05] you know 500 bucks in the back alley fight as one of the best boxers of all time but she didn't get recognition for it and turning her into [55:16] you know, [55:17] the goat of women's boxing in a [55:20] multi-multi-multi-multi-millionaire. So, um... [55:26] Yeah. [55:27] And [55:29] Hanging out at my ranch excites me. [55:32] How's your ranch? [55:33] it's a vibe. It's so much fun. It's just like... [55:38] Freedom? [55:39] I think the things that humans chase in life are like love. [55:44] And... [55:45] freedom, like you don't realize like, oh, why do you want to go on vacation? Because you can do whatever you want and have fun. [55:51] um so i always knew i wanted to build [55:54] you know, [55:56] to have freedom like that and that place where i can [55:59] do whatever like shoot guns drive fast like [56:05] um [56:06] you know get cows horses take care of animals

[56:10] um be able to hunt and i just have that massive area to do it all um then being in nature and and nature makes me feel very free so [56:22] Um, [56:23] Yeah, it's a dream come true. [56:43] is tied into uh [56:45] like. [56:46] like bringing people together. We hosted our first anti-fun summit there. [56:51] And I think it'll be... [56:53] our goal with that will be it's, [56:55] like the next generation cooler version of deer valley the allen and co yeah [57:01] know that like some of them would [57:03] be doing something and they're like, "This is the most fun thing I've ever done." [57:07] And then... [57:09] we're having like really deep business conversations like a little bit later. So it was just like cool to. [57:15] you know, [57:16] share that space. How'd you get the idea for it? What was the inspiration? The summit? Both. The summit and the ranch. The ranch has been a dream of mine since I was... [57:27] uh a kid my dad had this cabin [57:31] and he was an outdoorsman hunter and it was like this little cabin that we rented with like a little bit of property and whenever i would be there

[57:43] as a kid, I'd be like the happiest kid in the world. And I would just run around all day. And so he unfortunately, like, couldn't rent it anymore. And I was like, damn, like, I'm going to work hard. [57:53] to get a dope ass ranch one day. [57:57] and [57:58] be able to like go back to my childhood self there but then the summit [58:05] Yeah. [58:07] I think it, yeah, I think it comes from... [58:10] So [58:13] when you're there, you like feel like you're in Jurassic Park. And so I love like you're just like, this is amazing, like it's just beautiful. And so. [58:21] I think being able to share that with my friends is awesome and my family and then our business network. [58:31] And. [58:32] being productive at the same time and like all of those things is, [58:37] is kind of where the idea comes from. And I know I'm turning the ranch into more of like a business thing with [58:44] um [58:45] different fun things i'm not like doing it right away and i'm taking my time it's more of like a passion thing but um i want to like sell steaks and have the cows and create my own wagyu american wagyu and like that's just one example but [59:01] Um, what are you feeding them? It sounds like Mark Zuckerberg's ranch. Yeah. I mean, [59:07] There's like a rumor that you give them beer, but it's actually some fermented... It's macadamia nuts and beer, yeah. But it's like fermented...

[59:18] like hops or some i don't i don't know what it [59:22] what it is, but it's not actual beer, but they like sprinkle the hops into the food or something like that. But [59:28] I don't have any... [59:31] currently, but I'm going to [59:33] uh get some wagyu cows eventually and um [59:38] Yeah, that's where I see myself. You have to enjoy life. So that's where I see myself raising my kids, getting them to have that experience of... [59:48] being in nature and [59:50] um, [59:51] That's really what it's all about for me. [59:54] Are you a doomsday prepper? [59:56] Yeah, I am. You are? [59:57] Do you have a bunker? [59:59] Can't say. You can't say. I'll just say it. He's very well armored. He has a very nice armory. Everything you have explained about the ranch kind of points to doomsday. Yo, I'm literally like... [1:00:13] The mo- like, I'm like the American kid, like... [1:00:18] not the most country but like [1:00:21] Just... [1:00:22] being like loving guns and hunting and, [1:00:26] you know, being outside and being a businessman entrepreneur. I feel like I'm like, [1:00:31] the american like i don't know fighting people and doing shit like that i don't know if that makes sense is this like is this a good balance good escape from [1:00:45] the influencer celebrity boxing life. How do you view that?

[1:00:50] Um... [1:00:51] Thank you. [1:00:52] you [1:00:53] It's definitely... [1:00:56] It's definitely an escape in my happy place, but I still... [1:01:00] You know, we launched the YouTube channel for The Ranch. [1:01:04] And so I'm going to be posting videos there because [1:01:07] I do love to create and especially when it's something I'm passionate about, it doesn't feel like work. [1:01:12] We're just like, [1:01:14] filming ourselves... [1:01:16] you know, [1:01:16] having fun. [1:01:18] But... [1:01:20] Yeah, I also have a gym there and stuff. So I still train when I'm there and all of that with a boxing ring. I guess that struck a chord with me in terms of like you're just having fun. And I think that. [1:01:31] is my personal objective function for life? Like, can you just... [1:01:34] have a childlike fun for what you do. And I imagine that you like content critic, like you must, at some level, enjoy [1:01:42] connecting, interviewing, creating content. And I think we're lucky that we get to bend most of our productive time towards that. I think the best entrepreneurs are like that, like you create a job that you want to be living. [1:01:55] And if you're not... [1:01:56] If you hate the job, then you're probably messed up as a startup CEO. Obviously, a lot of shoveling dirt. [1:02:03] But I think the dream is how do you create a life in a team, in a culture where you're [1:02:08] You get to have fun [1:02:10] competing to be the world's best at what you do. [1:02:14] And I think a lot, and I think some, [1:02:16] And if you can stack all the things together, which I think it's like you have this ranch to do the summit, to have the venture fund, to have the businesses, to have the culture and the media.

[1:02:24] Um, [1:02:25] That's a lot of what I think about. How do I just stack stuff that synergizes really well? One of our sponsors is Brex, and they're all about spending start moving faster. [1:02:35] As we close out, I have to know, between... [1:02:38] Everything that you do, all the businesses you build, your athletic performance, the fund, the [1:02:44] How do you measure performance and what's your goal for the next 12 months? [1:02:49] Thank you. [1:02:52] I would I mean, I'm analytical, so like I would just say I measure performance by numbers. [1:03:00] you know like [1:03:01] Was it the biggest fight? How did this return do? How many views did this... [1:03:07] Oh, skip. [1:03:09] And... [1:03:11] Then there's like a more sentimental answer of like, [1:03:15] that like I believe fun is success so are you having like fun doing what you're doing and that [1:03:20] That's not easy to do all the time. So you have to... [1:03:23] remind yourself to [1:03:26] It can be monotonous, the daily grind. [1:03:29] You got to find the fun enjoying it. I think that's success. [1:03:33] What kind of numbers do you have to hit for performance on... [1:03:37] videos. [1:03:38] On videos? What's the benchmark for you? I'm so curious. [1:03:42] like a good, like an Instagram reel, like a good, [1:03:47] Good one. [1:03:49] would be like 10 million views. But that's like, [1:03:52] That's just like almost good, actually. So just like you drinking a...

[1:03:56] cup of water. [1:03:58] No, if I could post that and get 10 million views, that's like, then I'm just... [1:04:05] Um, [1:04:08] Probably a naked girl. [1:04:10] So, yeah. Okay. Sora AI video coming tomorrow. [1:04:17] And what about you, Jeff? [1:04:19] I think Jake states it really well. I think... [1:04:23] uh [1:04:24] You want to have some sort of objective numbers. So like, I think. What are you personally for you? How do you measure your performance every year? And like, what is your goal for this year? [1:04:34] I think for... [1:04:38] I think it's like, how do we... [1:04:41] I think specifically, let's talk about anti-fund. We want to have a 5x net fund. [1:04:47] So how do we... [1:04:50] invest in the right founders? How do we [1:04:54] actually support the portfolio to achieve those returns and [1:04:58] you know, maybe like... [1:05:01] I feel like if you don't want to compete with Sequoia and recent benchmark wine combinator, why are you in this business? So it's like, how can we compete and get like a 20x DPI fund? [1:05:13] And we probably will not do it. [1:05:16] But you aim really high and you work like hard, super hard to like try to get that. So I guess to me, it's like I think I think Jake's feels a very similar way. [1:05:26] Try to be the best in the world.

[1:05:28] Maybe we can do it. Maybe we can, but have a high, high bar and compete like hard, like hell for it. [1:05:34] Fantastic. [1:05:36] Okay, well, thank you so much.